Reputable Breeder vs the Backyard Breeder

[PrincessGrace]

I "borrowed" this off of another site I visit--it is a very valuable read! I thought we could add it as a "sticky"...

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

[TnBoxerMom]

Thanks for posting that Jill, has great info for the ones who don't know the difference. I wish there was some way BYB could be stopped. Once again I could go on & on..but most everyone here feels the same as I do...!

[PrincessGrace]

Thanks for posting that Jill, has great info for the ones who don't know the difference. I wish there was some way BYB could be stopped. Once again I could go on & on..but most everyone here feels the same as I do...!

I know! I tend to get on my soapbox about it as well!!!! (sometimes I can just feel the folks rolling there eyes..."there she goes again" ...but I do feel strongly about it and its a real sore spot with me...)

[kona coffee]

thanx jill! that was a really good article...i just have one questions...it says "Price will not reflect all that is invested in the pups. A reputable breeder never profits from the sale of puppies." is that really true? because it seems so weird to me that breeders can charge so much and not be making a profit...

[PrincessGrace]

thanx jill! that was a really good article...i just have one questions...it says "Price will not reflect all that is invested in the pups. A reputable breeder never profits from the sale of puppies." is that really true? because it seems so weird to me that breeders can charge so much and not be making a profit...

I am sure some profit is made, but when you look at all that goes into preparing for a litter in regards to raising, showing and proving your breeding stock, and health testing--and account for the time investment as well as the financial investment, then the profit is not huge...I am sure one of our wonderful and reputable breeders could shed a bit more light on the subject...and generally any "profit" goes back into their breeding program and showing...generally breeders breed in order to produce their next generation of show/breeding stock...not just to provide pups to others!

[ChanceNSev]

I think Jennifer(Newcastle) has written something on the expenses of having a litter. There are soooo many unpredictable variables.....size of litter,c-section or not,complications with Mom,complications with pups,cost of vetting,etc.......

[XenaBean]

A while back (or perhaps on another site?) Jennifer gave a break down of the cost of a litter... assuming health testing, stud fee. Assuming no complications, typical split between show and pet pups, etc. Even ignoring the cost of raising the dam, time off work, and all the expense of buying/showing her, she would be in the red. Breeders charge so much because they do need *some* of the money back, but no responsible breeder makes money. Profit does not exist in responsible dog breeding.

There was a saying in horses that someone I knew mentioned and applies in a less extreme extent to dog breeding: If you want to make a million in horse breeding, start with two million...

Or a favorite of dog breeders "I know there is money in purebred dogs - that's where all of mine went!"

[PrincessGrace]

Or a favorite of dog breeders "I know there is money in purebred dogs - that's where all of mine went!"

I am sure we can say that about the "not-so-purebred" as well!!! but very true!!!!

[Newcastle]

A while back (or perhaps on another site?) Jennifer gave a break down of the cost of a litter... assuming health testing, stud fee. Assuming no complications, typical split between show and pet pups, etc.

It was on another site, but here it is now. These figures are over three years old now, though, so adjust for inflation.

Health testing (as described above [hips, thyroid, AS, ARVC], OFA not PennHip; she'll have had 3 Holters by then, but only one thyroid test (bad me for not having one done sooner than now!) - I'm using the cardiologist Holter price, not my own, to make it more realistic): $1125

Brucellosis test (not genetic, but required pre-breeding): $45

Pre-breeding wellness exam (done at same times as brucellosis; otherwise, add an office visite to the brucellosis test)- office visit, stool sample, vaccinations or wormers that may be required: $44 minimum

Stud fee (really I've no clue about this, as I don't know what stud dog I'm using yet - this is a middle-of-the-road fee): $750

If doing frozen/fresh chilled, add another $750 at least for collection, shipping, insemination, etc.; if shipping the bitch, this should cover shipping, health certificate, etc.

Supplementation beginning 2 weeks pre-breeding: $46

So we're at $2760 and Patsy has just been bred.

Vet checkups throughout the pregnancy - 2-3, depending on the bitch: $120

Diet & supplements during last third of pregnancy through weaning: $150

Some breeders do ultrasound and/or x-ray to determine litter size; I'll probably use WhelpWise, which is an at-home fetal monitoring system - higher $$ than US/x-rays, but I'll make it up with puppy shots & worming: $375

Post-whelp check of the bitch & puppies: $100

Tails/dewclaws (assuming 7 puppies) at $25 per puppy: $175

$3680 and the pups are 2 days old

Time off work for whelping & first week post-whelp: Say 10 days including one weekend: $992; depending on whelp date, I may not have vacation time since I'll be using it to go to ABC to look at stud dogs - if she has the pups after October 1 I'll have another week of vacation time I can use. This is not "real" cost but should be considered.

Food and supplements for puppies from weaning until they go to their new homes (assuming 10 weeks; they may stay until 12 weeks): $1000

Increased water bill (laundry), electric bill, cleaning supplies, whelping box supplies, etc.: $250

Litter registration ($25 + $2 per puppy): $39

Stool samples for pups at 3 & 7 weeks (other breeders routinely worm, which would be higher - if the stool samples showed worms, the cost of wormer would be added here): $56

Cardiologist examination of pups at 8 weeks at $30 per puppy: $210

Puppy vaccinations for the pups not staying here @ $10 per puppy (this is one distemper-only and one parvo-only; other breeders do 3-4 combo shots so will have a much higher cost here): $60

Microchipping of puppies at $11 per puppy (breeder pack of chips): $77

Individiual Limited registration of pet puppies (I do this myself before the pups are officially sold) - we'll be optimistic and say 4 pups: $60

I did not include Patsy's showing costs in here - I would show her even if I never bred her. Other breeders do include these costs.

Grand total (assuming I haven't forgotten anything, which I probably have): $5,432 ($6,424 including my time off work)

Now - let's sell the puppies. I'm keeping one, remember, because that's why I bred the litter. So I have 6 puppies to sell; price will probably be $800 per puppy: $4800

But I reimburse for spay/neuter on the 4 pet pups, so -$400

I also reimburse for a basic obedience class - we'll say half of the pet owners turn that in, so -$200

I also send home a weeks' worth of food (say $10 per puppy), a blanket and a mookie that have been with the litter ($10 per puppy), "The BARF Diet" book ($20 per puppy), so -$240

So - I bring in $3,960 from puppy sales. My costs were $5,432, so my net "profit" is -$1,472

Even without all the extras I do, I'm in the hole $632.

Oh, but wait - I'll probably have 2 white puppies, which I can only sell for s/n and vet fees. S/n is covered above - vet fees are $65 per puppy, so I've got to subtract another $735 for each white puppy, bringing my "income" down to $2,490 and my "profit" to -$2,942

[PrincessGrace]

Thank you!

Great breakdown and realistic explanation of all that is involved...not even accounting for "emergency extras" that could pop up like the need for a c-section or any health issues with the pups at time of delivery!

so much more to breeding than ooh-ing and aah-ing over a cute bundle of puppies!